Songs are proof
That someone understands
Turn off the music for half a second.
Got to concentrate.
One of the easier things to learn in Hungarian is the grammar around quantities.
Sure, sometimes it is different than English, but it is still relatively easy to work with.
Singular nouns get singular verbs, just like in English:
| Hungarian | Egy ember énekel. | singular noun, singular verb |
| English | A person sings. | same logic as Hungarian |
Plural nouns get plural verbs, just like in English:
| Hungarian | Emberek énekelnek. | plural noun, plural verb |
| English | People sing. | same logic as Hungarian |
But, unlike English, if a noun is quantified, in Hungarian the noun and verb are both singular.
| Hungarian | Négy ember énekel. | Quantity * singular noun, singular verb |
| English | Four people sing. | Quantity * plural noun, plural verb |
Maybe looking at in terms of multiplication helps with the logic:
Hungarian logic: [quantity] x 1 person doing something.
English logic: [quantity] x multiple people doing something.
Same logic holds with a undetermined quantity like "how many?" "some," "many," "more."
Hungarian logic: [undetermined quantity] x 1 person doing something.
English logic: [undertermined quantity] x multiple people doing something.
| Hungarian | Hány ember énekel? | Undetermined quantity * singular noun, singular verb |
| English | How many people sing? | Undetermined quantity * plural noun, plural verb |
| **** | ||
| Hungarian | Néhány ember énekel. | Undetermined quantity * singular noun, singular verb |
| English | Some people sing. | Undetermined quantity * plural noun, plural verb |
| **** | ||
| Hungarian | Sok ember énekel. | Undetermined quantity * singular noun, singular verb |
| English | Many people sing. | Undetermined quantity * plural noun, plural verb |
| **** | ||
| Hungarian | Több ember énekel. | Undetermined quantity * singular noun, singular verb |
| English | More people sing. | Undetermined quantity * plural noun, plural verb |
- But pay attention if an undetermined quantity is a pronoun standing for people, rather than a modifier of a noun. It will not have the "quantity x noun" structure. Instead it will be act as a plural noun; this means it will use a plural verb:
| Hungarian | Hányan énekelnek? | plural pronoun, plural verb |
| English | How many sing? | same logic as Hungarian |
| **** | ||
| Hungarian | Néhányan énekelnek. | plural pronoun, plural verb |
| English | A few sing. | same logic as Hungarian |
| **** | ||
| Hungarian | Sokan énekelnek. | plural pronoun, plural verb |
| English | Many sing. | same logic as Hungarian |
| **** | ||
| Hungarian | Többen énekelnek. | plural pronoun, plural verb |
| English | More sing. | same logic as Hungarian |
| **** | ||
| Hungarian | A többiek énekelnek. | plural pronoun, plural verb |
| English | The others sing. | same logic as Hungarian |
Hmm, except when we use "ki." In such case English and Hungarian logic agree to use a singular verb:
| **** | ||
| Hungarian | Bárki énekel. | Undetermined quantity * singular pronoun, singular verb |
| English | Anyone sings. | same logic as Hungarian |
| **** | ||
| Hungarian | Senki nem énekel. | Zero quantity * singular pronoun, negation of singular verb |
| English | No one sings. | Zero quantity * singular pronoun, affirmation of singular verb |
| **** | ||
| Hungarian | Mindenki énekel. | Undetermined quantity * singular pronoun, singular verb |
| English | Everyone sings. | same logic as Hungarian |
| English | They all sing. |
(Perhaps English logic makes less sense than Hungarian logic.) |
... but we see how it works, yes? Sometimes this way, sometimes that way, but we get used to it, same way we get used to saying "everyone sings" in the singular but "all of them sing" in the plural... Now let's continue with this concept of grammar with quantities when we look at possessives:
Ok, now is where quantities get devilish. Possession. Hungarian has various possession-related structures. Here are some of them:
| Possessors | |||
|---|---|---|---|
| singular possession | plural possessions | ||
| mine | enyém | mine | enyéim |
| yours | tiéd (or tied) | yours | tiéid (or tieid) |
| yours (formal) | öné (or magáé) | yours (formal) | önéi (or magáéi) |
| his/hers/its | övé | his/hers/its | övéi |
| ours | miénk (or mienk) | ours | miéink (or mieink) |
| youse'all's | tiétek (or tietek) | youse'all's | tiéitek (or tieitek) |
| yours (formal) | önöké (or maguké) | yours (formal) | önökéi (or magukéi) |
| theirs | övék | theirs | övéik |
| Possessed things | |||
|---|---|---|---|
| singular possession | plural possessions | ||
| thing possessed by me | a(z én) ____-m/-om/-am/-em/-öm | things possessed by me | a(z én) ____ -im/-aim/-eim/-jaim/-jeim |
| thing possessed by you | a (te) ___-d/-od/-ad/-ed/-öd | things possessed by you | a (te) ___-id/-aid/-eid/-jaid/-jeid |
| thing possessed by you (formal) | a(z ön/a maga) ___-a/-e/-ja/-je | things possessed by you (formal) | a(z ön/a maga) ___-i/-ai/-ei/-jai/-jei |
| thing possessed by him/her/it | a(z ő) ___-a/-e/-ja/-je | things possessed by him/her/it | a(z ő) ___-i/-ai/-ei/-jai/-jei |
| thing possessed by us | a (mi) ___-nk/-unk/-ünk | things possessed by us | a (mi) ___-ink/-aink/-eink/-jaink/-jeink |
| thing possessed by youse'all | a (ti) ___-tok/-tek/-tök/-otok/-atok/-etek/-ötök | thing possessed by youse'all | a (ti) ___-itok/-itek/-aitok/-eitek/-jaitok/-jeitek |
| thing possessed by youse'all (formal) | a (z önök/a maguk) ___-a/-e/-ja/-je | things possessed by youse'all (formal) | a(z önök/a maguk) ___-i/-ai/-ei/-jai/-jei |
| thing possessed by them (with named possessors) | a ___-a/-e/-ja/-je | things possessed by them (with named possessors) | a ___-i/-ai/-ei/-jai/-jei |
| thing possessed by them (with pronoun or no possessors named) | a(z ő) ___-uk/-ük/-juk/-jük | things possessed by them (with pronoun or no possessors named) | a(z ő) ___-ik/-aik/-eik/-jaik/-jeik |
Look at the rows in green. These are third person.
A careful study of the bold green rows (indicating third person plural possessors) reveals some sort of logic similar to the logic pertaining to quantities: if the multiple nature is expressed already, no need to compound it.
(In these bold rows either the possessed object is marked as being possessed by multiple possessors or the possessor is marked as being multiple. One or the other. But not both.)
Here are the various ways third person plural possessors might be depicted:
Marking the possessor:
There are two cases where the possessor is marked to show multiple possessors:
Marking the possessed object:
There are two cases where the possessed object is marked to show multiple possessors:
In summary, for multiple possessors:
Why do we not have this problem with first and second person?
Well let's look at it this way: first and second person are indefinite. They shift depending on viewpoint (This is mine from my point of view, but not from yours.) Let's think of 1st and 2nd person as imaginary numbers. Imaginary numbers can be multiplied in ways that aren't redundant.
We can imagine logic for the grammar if we think hard enough. If we chew at it further we might discover flaws in our thinking and come up with a better way of piecing it together. But during the process we are playing with the rules and trying to familiarize ourselves with all their elusive aspects.